nilchance: original art from a vintage print; art of a woman being struck by lightning (Dean's mouth)
[personal profile] nilchance
It's Monday. Woe.

So! I want people to come talk to me about what Supernatural characters smell like. Does Dean smell like cheap shampoo? Does Sam really smell like hair product? Did Mary smell like baby powder and some perfume "from Dean and Sam"? Does Ruby smell like brimstone, or like different perfumes she shoplifts from malls? Did Meg smell like menthol? Does Bobby smell like whiskey and books? Did Jess smell like oil paints?

Come talk to me. *chin on hands*

Date: 2008-01-07 02:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] apostrophee.livejournal.com
I think Dean smells like cheap aftershave and engine grease. Sam of course has a soft, calming smell, like fabric softener sheets or freshly washed linen. I have decided that Ruby smells like hay because before her body was possessed she lived on a farm and her chore was to look after the horses. Bobby smells like patchouli and Ellen smells like Dawn dish detergent and lilac.

Date: 2008-01-07 02:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] darktouch.livejournal.com
I would think that smelling like brimstone would get in the way of the lovin. People say "demons smell like brimstone" and then they think "Sucubi are hot" therefor brimstone must smell good. Pheh. If the person I was getting it on with smelled like brimstone I'd be out of there and gagging.

Date: 2008-01-07 03:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kuhekabir.livejournal.com
I would say Sam has a soft smell, something fruity maybe and defintily in the shampoo.
Dean's smell would definitly be something that I associate with leather, gun powder and the car...
Not sure about any of the others...:)

Date: 2008-01-07 03:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] beetle-breath.livejournal.com
You could find that lady who created all those Endless scents...see what she thinks? XD

Date: 2008-01-07 04:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ladykatiewench.livejournal.com
I agree with [livejournal.com profile] kuhekabir. The first scent that came to my mind for Dean was leather. Leather & the impala. And gun oil. And maybe some cologne or after shave or something that he things will get women's attention. Not that that's the thing that gets him attention, but you know that he thinks it helps.

Date: 2008-01-07 04:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shotofjack.livejournal.com
Bobby smells like a mechanic, engine and transmission oil. But, on top of the chemical smell, there is the smell of inexpensive soap because he washes up so carefully & thorougly before handling his valuable, fragile book collection.
*nods head*

Date: 2008-01-07 05:13 pm (UTC)
tabaqui: (bobbybyhow_iconic)
From: [personal profile] tabaqui
YES.
:)

Date: 2008-01-07 05:19 pm (UTC)
tabaqui: (s&dtablebylightningbird)
From: [personal profile] tabaqui
Hrmmmmmmm....
A lot of the cheaper hotels don't give you shampoo anymore, and certainly not conditioner. And washing your hair with soap tends to make it kind of icky over time. So i think the boys buy El Cheapo brand shampoo, like Suave or V-8 - stuff that sells for less than two bucks, and sometimes less than a buck. And i think they both probably shy away from 'rasberry and creame' so when they're not smelling like gun smoke, grave dirt and sweat they probably have that faintly fruity/faintly coconut smell of most cheap shampoos.

Since both are cleanshaven, aftershave for sure, and i'll be Dean uses what Dad used, and Dad used...Old Spice. Sam uses something a little more modern, maybe something that Jess picked out... Possibly Brut. I think they both use some kind of cheap stick deodorant, Right Guard or Speed Stick.

Dean definitely has a hint of gun oil and leather about him, Sam a little of the same since they both handle weapons daily.

[livejournal.com profile] shotofjack got Bobby *exactly* right. :)

Ellen? Ivory soap and, before the Roadhouse burnt down, cigarettes.

Ruby...something expensive and obnoxious, the kind of perfume that announces itself before the person arrives. After all, she's so *glossy*. Unless being a demon means you never get dirty, i'll be she spends a lot of money - or steals a lot of - high-end grooming products.
*la*

Date: 2008-01-07 05:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jdsgirlbev.livejournal.com
John smells like woodsmoke and fresh bread.

Date: 2008-01-07 05:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] strippedhalo.livejournal.com
I think Dean smells like warm flannel and mint gum and skin, and, if he's been to the bar of an evening, like leather and cigarette smoke with juuuuuust a touch of CK-1.

Sam smells like my one-time-roommate, Kyle. Which is not terribly descriptive, but there you go. I could never figure out what he smelled like when I lived with him. Some combination of dryer sheets and cookies, without being either foody or dryer sheet-y. *g*

Date: 2008-01-07 06:05 pm (UTC)
ext_16765: (Winchester brothers)
From: [identity profile] arabella-hope.livejournal.com
Good. REALLY REALLY GOOD.

(but yeah, I'm on board with the gun oil and leather for Dean and the shampoo heavy for Sam and IF they wear cologne - thinking that it's quite possibly the same one. Which. MMM.)

THO. I also think they might plain STINK sometimes.

Date: 2008-01-07 06:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] azephirin.livejournal.com
I think if either boy smells like hair product, it's Dean. :)

Leather for Dean because he wears that jacket all the time. Laundry detergent for both of them, depending on how far they are from wash day. And that unmistakable but undefinable smell of car-with-old-leather-seats. And sometimes cigarette smoke, faintly—not b/c either of them smokes, but b/c they're in bars a lot and it tends to stick to your clothes. This really, really annoys Sam.

Mary, I think, at least towards the end of her life, smelled like baby and like Jean Naté bath products. On special occasions, maybe like perfume that John got her. I'm not superfamiliar with what was on the market in 1983, but something fairly light, a little floral, and department-store-bought but relatively inexpensive.

I agree w/ whoever said that Ruby smells like obnoxiously expensive stuff. Bela, on the other hand, is Jo Malone all the way. (Still expensive, just less obnoxious.) Meg mos def smells like menthol, because the bitch has no class. Jess, I think, smelled like whatever flavor of Bath & Body Works / Body Shop product she was using at the time, covered over with the scent of whatever she had been baking—fresh bread, frequently. Sam loved it.

I agree w/ [livejournal.com profile] shotofjack for Bobby. He smells like motor oil and dirt floors—like the garages my dad worked in when I was a kid—but clean on top of it.

Date: 2008-01-07 06:12 pm (UTC)
ext_13391: (dean_simply)
From: [identity profile] smilla02.livejournal.com
I think Mary did smelled like baby product to Dean, the delicate scent of baby powder. To John she smelled sweet like milk before the fire, after, he gagged every time he smelled roasted pork meat in the air. It took him a long time to find her scent again, and the one that went very, very close to it was Ellen's.

To Dean John smelled like leather and gun oil, scent that Dean himself inherited from him, at least according to Sam before Stanford. After Stanford, Sam recognizes Dean's peculiar scent, a sweetest note; he's convinced it was Mary's :D After the deal, Sam swears Dean sometimes smells sour like fear.

To Dean and John, Sam's always smelled soft and baby-ish. When Dean took him from Stanford, Dean couldn't recognize Sam's scent, and when he went closer to Jessica he realized he smelled like her and of her. For that reason he was a bit more ruder when he said he had to talk alone with Sam.

I completely agree with [livejournal.com profile] tabaqui about Ruby and Ellen. Bela, on the other hand, uses Chanel n.5 because she likes to think of herself as a nouvelle Coco.

I hope your Monday improves :)

Date: 2008-01-07 06:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nilchance.livejournal.com
I LOVE YOU SO MUCH for going with the roasted pork thing. Seriously. I had that very thought, one that comes up on and off in wee-chester fics where John's all PTSD. How can he reconcile that sort of horror in his head, five-plus years of marriage and courtship compared to watching her reduced to fire and ash? Gah. *flap hands*

I also love Sam smelling like baby to Dean and John, followed by him smelling like Jess. Because... yes. And after the fire, Dean being sickly grateful that Sam smelled like ashes, because at least that was familiar.

Date: 2008-01-07 06:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nilchance.livejournal.com
I think if either boy smells like hair product, it's Dean.

Heh. No, his hair looks like that naturally! *crosses heart*

I also love the reeking of smoke and bars thing. So very true; it's never coming out. And the smoke was probably too much for Sam right after the fire that killed Jess, so Dean curbed his manwhore habits for a while until the smoke didn't make Sam retch. Aww.

Date: 2008-01-07 06:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nilchance.livejournal.com
YES THANK YOU. They're guys. They dig in dirt and bodies and grime and sweat and ugh.

Also, I'm of the opinion that John went through depressive stages where Dean had to practically throw his ass in the shower to be able to survive a six hour car ride.

Date: 2008-01-07 06:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nilchance.livejournal.com
I think Dean smells like warm flannel and mint gum and skin, and, if he's been to the bar of an evening, like leather and cigarette smoke with juuuuuust a touch of CK-1.
Rawr. This is love.

Date: 2008-01-07 06:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nilchance.livejournal.com
Mmm, yay. ;)

Date: 2008-01-07 06:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jdsgirlbev.livejournal.com
Those are the most 'basic' positive smells I can think of that gives you an idea of what I associate with John, who, for me at least, smells profoundly like shelter, and home and safety. And to me? That's woodsmoke and fresh bread.

Date: 2008-01-07 07:17 pm (UTC)
ext_16765: (*sad JDM)
From: [identity profile] arabella-hope.livejournal.com
Seriously. And sitting in the car, driving around, they've gotta get ripe. Plus, with all the crap Dean eats, his ass certainly ain't smelling like roses. It's canon!

And dghjk OH JOHN. I can see that, really I can. (also, I've been craving John-on-his-own fic badly lately and I figure you're as good a person to ask as any: do you happen to know of any, by chance?)

Date: 2008-01-07 07:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] topaz119.livejournal.com
Oh, I love this...about a year ago a friend and I had this discussion, just about John, and this is what I said:

John smells like leather and gun oil, a little smoke from the last dive he ate in, Ivory soap and the Wrigley's doublemint he chews to keep from smoking himself.

That's Dean, too, with a little extra of good aftershave, because Cassie bought it for him (there's no way she let him keep using anything cheap, so something by CK or Lauren) and he got used to it, so he found himself getting more the one time he was in a mall after he finished off the bottle. And maybe a little bit like the shampoo he steals from Sam.

Sam ... again with the gun oil and the smoke, but he's gotten good at finding not cheap shampoo on the fly, because otherwise his hair goes insane and he's so not cutting it, not after all the years of fighting about it with his dad and Dean. So, something like J Crew Mint or a lemon something (that they both use when they want to get rid of the smell of blood.) Dean started to give him shit about it, but then managed not to, because he figured that Jess had probably been the one to get it for him (he was right; Sam, on his own, without any idea of what you could use other than Head & Shoulders or whatever Dean found, bought god-awful stuff.) Dean will actually stop and look for it, if he thinks about it, but the bottle just appears in Sam's bag, and nobody says anything about it.

To Dean, Mary smells like Ivory Baby Soap, the kind that you use to wash clothes, and Estee Lauder Beautiful (John bought it for her, because she was and that was the best way he could tell her.) Before the fire, she smelled like sunshine and spring air to John; after, he didn't think of her at all, because he shut everything down. After, she was the gold he never took off his finger, but as a person, she was gone.

Date: 2008-01-07 07:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fureux.livejournal.com
i think bobby's got a bottle of old spice, or kourous, hidden away amongst his pots and pans that he pulls out when he's entertaining the ladies. he'd be all nervous and gentlemanly, spitting in his hand and slicking down his cowlicks and finding his best shirt with the least frayed collar. awww, bless him.

Date: 2008-01-07 08:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rejeneration.livejournal.com
I always thought Mary looked like she might smell of dried flowers. That soft almost dusty hint of something warm, maternal. Understated, but there.

Sam... Sam in my mind smells like cocoanut milk – weakened. Something sweet, barely there, the smooth caramel scent rounding out all that muscle and bone.

Dean, spicy. Definitely. Cheap aftershave, or no- the trace of whatever gas station variation of shaving cream he's gotten this week. Scent still lingering under the faint sweetness of Juicy Fruit. The coat... I don't know. I feel like the coat's so old, it's lost most of that leather smell. It's just a combination of greasy diners and smoky bars and Dean and Dean and Dean. The good, the bad. But I think when he's not digging in graves and breaking a sweat, Dean smells clean and spicy.

If anyone smells like flowers - cloying - it's Bela. Expensive, no doubt, but she has no idea when to stop.

Jess was the one that smelled like powder - all talcum freshness in the bend of her elbow, her knee.

I like the idea of Ruby smelling like gun-powder, a round after it's just been fired. Like danger.

Date: 2008-01-07 09:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] maharetr.livejournal.com
Ellen? Ivory soap and, before the Roadhouse burnt down, cigarettes.
*heart squeeze* That's horrifyingly perfect, and makes so much sense.

Date: 2008-01-07 10:18 pm (UTC)
tabaqui: (ellenbyhow_iconic)
From: [personal profile] tabaqui
Ellen is just so...freakin' cool.

Date: 2008-01-07 10:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lomer.livejournal.com
Dean smells like old leather with a faint undertone of motor oil. If you sit in the Impala, you'll notice he smells like his best girl - minus the scent of old blood, sweat, and fast food.

Sam always smells a little different every day, thanks to those little bottles of shampoo and free bars of soap in the motels they stay at. Sometimes he hates it because he thinks he smells like a fruit basket, other times it smells like home.

Date: 2008-01-07 10:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] frightened.livejournal.com
Smells are so... wham. My first girlfriend smelled of washing powder and cigarettes. Still hits me, seven years later. Actually, and I swear this isn't just my crush talking, Ellen probably smells something like that. Hair traps smells, and I bet it got cigaretty. And, prior to the Roadhouse fire, her hands smelled of wet cloths and spilled booze. Nothing sexy about it, but the woman runs a pub, ffs.

Brimstone = sulphur = smells like farts, yes, at the risk of being indelicate? No way do the girl demons spend so much time on their cliched naughty-seductress crap and then not do something about that. I don't buy it. I'm with whoever above said Ruby smells like some obnoxious perfume.

Bela probably smells expensively good if you like that sort of thing - she's a posh girl, with that accent, and we all know she sleeps "rolling in money".

My first instinct is that the boys smell of either free soap or whatever they can get cheapest, and therefore probably nothing consistent. I think that when the free/cheapest/on-special-offer soap's something particularly odd and fruity, they look at each other and go "huh", like with the disco motel room. In my personal canon, they've had to brazen out at least one witness-interview with the witness wondering why these supposed FBI agents smell of strawberries. Probably Sam pulled a bitchface and Dean thought it was hilarious.

But then, canonically, Dean likes awesome showers and has ridiculous towel-arrangements that I didn't manage when I had long hair, so, hmmm. I think he's got a secret hair-product stash somewhere.

Date: 2008-01-07 11:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eloise-bright.livejournal.com
I wrote this drabble over a year ago, but it fits here *grins*


Sam knows better than to ask. Not Dad, not even Dean. He just wonders, because all he’s ever known is scent of Winchester. And he’s pretty sure Calvin Klein isn’t going to be bottling that anytime soon.

It’s cordite and Ivory soap, tobacco leather and wax dressing, sweaty feet and engine oil, mixed up with the antiseptic Dad makes them put on when they get banged up, which burns so bad it takes their breath away.

But sometimes, Sam presses his face into a towel fresh from the dryer, or a clean pillow slip, and pretends it’s his mother’s scent.

Date: 2008-01-08 02:17 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] deanangst.livejournal.com
I think Dean would remember smells more related to bedtime,
when he was tired and more willing to smuggle into his parents
lap. SO Dean remembers Mary smelled like Original formula Neutrogena
face soap when she tucked him in at night.

John smelled like coast soap and Kool menthol cigs.

Sam smelled of Johnson and Johnson baby powder and lotion.

Dean would smell of Johnsons baby shampoo
....

post fire

John Smells of Generic Cigs, beer/whiskey, and gun oil.

Sam Smells of mocha coffee

Dean smells like Colgate irish spring shaveing cream dial
soap. he doesn't use aftershaves or colonge because he wouldn't
want a heavy sent on his skin when he's hunting.

Bobby smells of Orange sented GOJO (gooie soap machanics use that
cuts grease and oil.)

Ellen smells of cig smoke and roadhouse fried foods('cause you
know shes searving the greasy food all late night drinkers crave)
but if the boys spend the night in one of the back rooms Dean can smell the hint of Neutrogena soap on her in the morning and thats why he has allowed her into his heart.



The Impala

Date: 2008-01-08 10:00 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] iyalode.livejournal.com
Dean uses a product used by professional car detailers to clean the interior. There's this one he picks up from time to time that leaves a nice light leather smell, because his girl's a lady not a tramp. And, if he's running low, he can mix it with Sammy's water based shampoo (yeah, sorry Sammy, they're out of watermellon and strawberry)

Dean would notice if the Impala went whiffy long before he'd notice his own scent. Bet if he closes his eyes the Impala smells like Dad/Mom/Sammy (insert above suggestions here)

Date: 2008-01-08 01:04 pm (UTC)
ext_16464: (Orli3)
From: [identity profile] dairwendan.livejournal.com
Mary smelled like like orange glazed cinnamon buns. Citrus-y bright but cinnamon roll warm and comforting.

Before the fire, John smelled like Old Spice deodorant (the closest a REAL Marine gets to cologne, damn it!), Edge shaving gel (cause of his unbelievably tough beard), and motor oil (duh). After the fire he smelled like whatever deodorant was cheapest (but not that Suave shit cause it gives him a rash). If he had a choice in scents he'd take musk or spice. He got an electric razor 'cause it was cheaper than buying blades all the time, and he wasn't that concerned about how close his shave was anymore. He bought generic dandruff shampoo cause he usually went a little too long between washings. He still smelled like motor oil, and Dean held onto that because it was one of the only things left from 'before'. He smelled of sweat, dirt and blood too much of the time, hard liquor more than he should, and always, even if he'd just brushed his teeth, like black coffee. His personal scent is a little like hops.

Before the fire Dean smelled like Ninja Turtle Bubble Bath and Johnson's No More Tears Baby Shampoo, with generally a hint of animal crackers and Tang. John doesn't remember when Dean started smelling like cheap soap and crayons but he does remember the day he came home from a hunt, hugged 11-year-old Dean and thought, 'Jesus, my kid smells like a gymn bag!' The next day he explained to Dean that he was getting to be a big guy now, and he'd have to start using deodorant, like Dad. Dean couldn't have been more thrilled!

Now Dean smells like 'unscented' hair gel, the cheapest deodorant he can find, sport scent, and arousal. He buys Alberto VO5 Normal or Balsam and Protein shampoo, in a pinch he'll accept Extra Body or Moisturizing Aloe, but he won't go girlier than that! His personal scent is a little like peppermint.

Before the fire, Sammy smelled like Baby Magic lotion, powder and fresh milk (when his diapers were clean, anyway). After the fire he smelled like Desitin diaper rash ointment and sour formula. Except right after a bath when he smelled like cheap soap and sugar cookies. When that sugar cookie scent turned to gym bag, Dean delicately approached the matter by exclaiming "Jesus, Sammy, you stink! Ever heard of deodorant, dumbass?"

Now he smells like Speed Stick, fresh scent, or whatever deodorant he can find that's close (clean scent, ocean, mountain breeze, forest blast, etc.), cinnamon toothpaste, whatever shampoo Dean's bought and shaving cream. He used Lever 2000 soap when he was at Stanford, but he knows Dean would razz him forever if he started buying soap, which you get FREE at motels, so he's let that go. He still likes the smell of it, though. His personal scent matured from sugar cookie to something more like caramel. (I know someone else said caramel above, sorry, I don't mean to copy you, but I can't think of anything else that sugar cookie would mature into that seems like Sam.)

Jess smelled like Lever 200O soap, cinnamon toothpaste, and brown sugar.

Bobby smells like motor oil, GOOP hand cleaner, the outdoors and sandalwood.

Ellen smells like White Shoulders perfume and lemon scented dish detergent.

Meg smelled like a vanilla car air freshener.

Ruby smells like the Paris Hilton cologne she douses herself with but no matter what she does, she always has 'morning' breath.

Bela uses a bottle of Imperial Majesty perfume, which she stole, and of course, Cor by Plank soap. She uses a special Tea Tree Oil toothpaste made in small batches in Italy and a deodorant crystal from Belgium. Yet she still can't get rid of that 'not so fresh feeling' and she smells like a well-frequented whorehouse.

Date: 2008-01-08 05:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] acidquill.livejournal.com
Hmmmm...

Dean: that dusty smell of old leather - it's barely there but you *know* exactly what it is, & something clean like sage with a hint of smoke when he's fresh from a salt & burn

Bobby: that kind of fruity/sweet smell motor oil & engine grease have - okay so not the best way to describe it but I think he smells like I remember my grandfather did.

Mary: definitely a little baby powder, but not 'omg, this woman is bathing in Johnson's' - more like a drift of it when she turned a certain way. & like sun, literally. that fresh smell of grass & sunlight when you've just come inside

Jess: sun tan lotion, spearmint gum, coconut shampoo

Date: 2008-01-08 06:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] realpestilence.livejournal.com
I don't know that I'd recognize the scent of "cheap" shampoo as opposed to a more expensive kind. I think any kind of "clean" scent, in regards to soap or shampoo would be fine for Dean-he's not going to want to smell strongly of anything...bad way to catch attention from people *and* critters.

For cologne, I favor something old-fashioned, like Old Spice or Aqua Velva; something easily attainable in the kinds of stores they'd be going to, inexpensive, not froofroo, and probably similar enough to what John might have worn to be acceptable as proper man stuff.


Sam I have no idea, really.

I doubt Ruby smells like sulphur, or of anything but some aggressive perfume (if at all). She'd likely pick something heavy and musky, to be assertive.

I think Bobby would smell of alchohol (whiskey is fine), old paper, and some kind of car fluid-grease, oil, etc.

Bela would wear some elegant, elusive perfume that would be just enough to tease the senses and distract you at the right moment.

Can't say I really thought about most of the characters in regards to this.

Date: 2008-01-11 06:34 am (UTC)
fufaraw: mist drift upslope (remembrances)
From: [personal profile] fufaraw
Dean smells like leather, plain soap, sugar and salt from candy and cheetos, the barest hint of the "scentless" sports gel he uses in his hair, plus whatever fabric softener they last got on sale. And occasionally, last night's wings and beer.

Sam smells like soap, the last of the balsam and sandalwood cologne Jess gave him, laundry detergent warmed by the body heat contained in layers of clothes, and clean honest sweat. And occasionally, last night's Greek salad and beer.

Ruby smells like the leather jackets she likes, drugstore cologne, mingled cosmetics scents and hair product, all with the slightest sour undertang of wet charred wood.

Missouri smells like bitter herbs and earth, overlaid with lavender, fennel, and dill. And that Avon perfume her momma wore that Missouri wears on Sundays because it's comforting.

Mary smelled like fresh garden earth and sun-dried laundry, with a slight milky undertone that, as clean as she kept herself and her clothes, was always on the verge of souring. Still, it was sweet to John, and comforting to her boys.

Bobby has a scent similar to Missouri's, of bitter herbs. His is overlaid with engine grease and the various fluids cars require, mingled with coffee cooked too long on the burner and Old Spice stick deodorant.

Meg had that leather smell, but a little charred and pungent, over scents of cinnamon and pepper, underlaid by ash and a whiff of stale sex fluids.

Ellen smells like sawdust and Murphy's soap, cigarette smoke and beer layered into her hair and skin in spite of all the showers. There's a bright, light scent mixed in there, though--flowers, cut grass. She catches whiffs of it from her cleavage and the inside of her elbows as she works, and doesn't care whether anyone else does or not.

John wore brimstone and ash like a signature scent, layered with the iodine smell of salt, gunpowder, and despair. Neither his harsh laundry soap nor his cheap shampoo could overcome it. But beneath all that was, warm and sweet, the echo of clean and honest body heat, the smell of healthy skin and flesh. Nobody's gotten close enough in years to catch that scent, though.

ETA: If it's okay, I'd like to repost this in my journal and see what other responses it generates.
Edited Date: 2008-01-11 06:43 am (UTC)

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