(no subject)

[nilchance]

Question: anybody have really really good recs on novels with, by or about serial killers? Movies also acceptable. Will be renting Manhunter later this month. Bonus points if there's "if you stare into the abyss" angst from the person hunting the murderer.

(I'm asking for raven-verse. Trying to get into the killer's head a little.)



- The Hunger Games
- Refuge : an Unnatural History of Family and Place
- A Rush of Wings
- Autobiography of a Face
- Black Magic Woman
- Serial Killers and Sadistic Murderers
- My Favorite Earthling
- The Taking
- Undone

Comments

[poisontaster]

He wasn't a serial killer exactly, but The Vanishing (movie), I think, could be a good one for you.

[serendip50.livejournal.com]

Hi there. I think 'The Mean Season' and 'Seven' are good ones to look at. xx

[sin-of-pride.livejournal.com]

I'm going with the obvious and reccing American Psycho though you've probably read it. Not the right POV you asked for, but definitively a look down the abyss.

[dine.livejournal.com]

not sure if they're exactly what you're looking for, but John Peyton Cooke wrote a couple books that spring to mind. One deals with a serial killer in 30s Cleveland, and the other gets somewhat into the head of a killer in "modern" times (80s?). they both focus on gay characters and made a major impression on me - enough that I remember them well over 10 years later. it looks like both are out of print, but hopefully you can find copies used or at the library without too much trouble.

Torsos
http://www.amazon.com/Torsos-John-Peyton-Cooke/dp/0446404543/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1234299999&sr=1-4

The Chimney Sweeper
http://www.amazon.com/Chimney-Sweeper-John-Peyton-Cooke/dp/0446403881/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1234299999&sr=1-3

[allthelivesofme.livejournal.com]

I'd recommend anything by John Douglas and Mark Olshaker.

[realpestilence.livejournal.com]

I don't generally read those kind of books if they're too graphic, because "nightmares"...! But I have read some by Val McDermid which were very intense (one of which I think was called The Blood in the Wire?)

There's 'Exquisite Corpses', by Poppy Z Brite...weird, kind of gory and all, but she's a charismatic writer-like an Anne Rice who never fell from grace. Not a seriel killer book in the way you mean it, but...interesting genre work. If you can get hold of a copy at the library or something, check it out, you'll know best.

Also, the movie Copycat, starring Sigourney Weaver and Holly...er, what's-her-last-name, was good. (And btw, Sigourney's another example of a tall, strong woman in support of the "how did Ever know" re:Jen in Marriage Drag *beams*)

Also, the same team that produced the movie Seven (gripping and devasating), also produced 8MM, starring Nicholas Cage and Joaquin Phoenix...*that* is an amazingly well-acted movie, with a dark script, and not something *I* would want to watch when in a depressed mood. It's not exactly about serial killers, as such-it's about snuff films. BUT-the dark, moody script and intensity *might* help you...or, uh, make you drink. Whichever!

"Mindhunter" should be very helpful, I read it years ago and found it interesting.

I was just wondering about your killer-how aware is he of what he's doing? Or she, yes! :) Because I was thinking of Sybil and disassociative personality disorders...the book is better than the movie, though Sally Field did a good job with what the script gave her. And *is* there only one killer? Or a copycat? Or a duo,etc, do you know, yet? Will the gender, race, age, religion of the killer play a part? *throws mud on your nice clear windshield* :D

I'll ask my friend aelfsiden if she's got some ideas, she reads more of that genre than I do.

[re-eth-ke.livejournal.com]

Cody Mcfadyen has written three wonderfully creepy novels about an FBI serial killer task force. The books all have fairly graphic violence and psychological horror, if that's a problem.

[elizaria.livejournal.com]

If you're interested in a non-fiction book Robert Hare's book Without Conscience is very popular on the literary lists for several Uni courses, at least from what I've seen on our library (which is Swedish though lol) His website's here http://www.hare.org/

Fictionalized "real life":
I remember seeing "Henry, Portrait of a Serial Killer": http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099763/ which seriously creeped me out on how they think
"Dahmer": http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0285728/ Jeremy Renner played him really screwed up

[gwendolen.livejournal.com]

Tess Gerritsen - The Surgeon (and the sequels). Very, very graphic though.

I found the book about Ted Bundy (The Only living WIthness by Stephen G. Michaud, Hugh Aynesworth, and Roy Hazelwood) very fascinating in the attempt to get into the head of a serial killer.

I think Ann Rule also has written several true crime novels about serial killers though I don't know how good they are.

And then there are the classics by Thomas Harris: Red Dragon, Silence of the Lambs and Hannibal.

As for tv, I'm very impressed by the British tv shows "Messiah" and by "Wire in the Blood". WIre in the Blood is based on some of the novels of Val McDermit.

[allthelivesofme.livejournal.com]

Ohh, I have to second Val McDermid's novels, and 8MM. The movie is so disturbing and there's a part near the end where the main character asks the killer why he's doing this and the answer is just . . . nnnnnn. Creepy.

[realpestilence.livejournal.com]

My spelling's really gone to crap, here! *frowns*


Yes, re:8MM...and it occurred to me that it's also a good look at the *survivors'* mindsets, too. How sad it is to lose a loved one to death, and then how much more terrible it is to lose them to murder, and cruelty. :(

[allthelivesofme.livejournal.com]

And I haven't seen it in a while so I can't be absolutely sure if I'm remembering from it or from another movie, but I'm pretty sure 8MM has some nice scenes discussing whether or not it's best to never know what happened to a loved one, even if it drives you crazy wondering, or to find out that something terrible happened but at least you know.

[tygrrlyli.livejournal.com]

Depends on what kind of portrayal. One of the most -accurate- movie portrayals I've seen to date is (oddly) Quentin Tarantino's "Deathproof."
Hmmm, what else..I know there's more.

Damn, I'm not coming up with things and I should be. I mean, I could name a bunch of profiling books and biographies and such.
There's also "Sexual Homicide: Patterns and Motives" which is awesome but probably not what you're looking for in that it's A)true crime, B)more of an educational thing. I mean, it does give ideas into how a killer is thinking at the time and such, but it's very dense and research-y. As is "Serial Killers" by Joel Norris. In fact, that one is amazingly dense and research-y, but amazing.
And "The Serial Killer Files" which I pretty much rec to everyone cause it's a helluva fun read. But doesn't really give an in on the mind. It's more a recount of serial killings around the globe from all ages.

[july-july-july.livejournal.com]

I highly recommend The Devil in the White City by Erik Larson. It's about H. H. Holmes and the Chicago World's Fair. It covers his evolution and history and it is creepy as all hell. It's non-fiction but it's told like a linear story, and the plot unfolds smoothly. "No Exit" doesn't even scratch the surface of this guy. Definitely worth the read.

[http://users.livejournal.com/amy_star_/]

If you're looking into insight into serial killers, John Douglas is the way to go. He is the ex-head of the profiling unit of the FBI.

Thomas Harris is great, of course; if you;re looking at religious weirdness too, then Ted Dekker is good (although, that's usually Christian-based twists). Primal Fear has one of the best endings in the business (both book and movie) although that's less serial killer than psychiatric case murder. Movies-wise, I definitely second Seven.

Academia-wise, Hunting Humans by Leyton is great. It's written by a university prof but it's definitely accessible enough for the general population to read, too. Actually, you could probably go into any bookstore and check out the true crime and/or psychology sections and find a good one or two.

[sierrawyndsong.livejournal.com]

not a book but...
but this movie has always been one of my faves
Fear with Ally Sheedy and Lauren Hutton - psychic links with serial killer.......

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099557/

[jdsgirlbev.livejournal.com]

I see someone has already told you about Hunting Humans by Elliot Leyton. I really recommend that one. I haven't read it since it was revised, but it was... quite the interesting book!

[linderhill.livejournal.com]

years ago I decided to read "Red Dragon" by Thomas Harris because the movie "Manhunter" filmed a scene down the hall from where I was working at the FBI. When I finally got to see the movie I was amazed at how different it was from the book. The book was awesome (I'd never had a book make me jump before) but I enjoyed the movie too (once I got over the created scenes). Billy Petersen is amazing and Brian Cox was an wonderfully understated Hannibal Lector. I never saw the remake of the novel with Ed Norton, never saw the need. I remember being so excited when I heard that there was going to be a sequel to "Red Dragon," "Silence of the Lambs." (a pet peeve of mine is when people refer to "Red Dragon" as prequel to "Silence" "Hannibal Rising" was written as a prequel)

Anyway, all of Ann Rules books are great, especially "The Stranger Beside Me," her book on Ted Bundy. The book that got her started on writing true crime books. If you can find the tv version of the book, "The Deliberate Stranger,"Mark Harmon gives a chilling performance as Ted.

I also second the rec of John Douglas. Met the man years ago at the FBI academy before Hollywood made profiling into crime solving magic.

[atypia.livejournal.com]

You could try asking this question in disturbingbooks, or checking the tags there.

[realpestilence.livejournal.com]

I think it did have that conversation, yes. I cried over that movie...0.0

[sierrawyndsong.livejournal.com]

Helter Skelter - by Vincent Bugliosi
was quite interesting
altho I don't think Manson is considered a serial killer per se
it does touch on some of the psychology of the killer mind frame

[themadmosquito.livejournal.com]

Mr. Brooks with Kevin Costner. Not quite the viewpoint you're looking for, but definately about serial killers and CREEPY, despite being mostly not graphic onscreen.

It almost made me re-think my general strong distaste for Costner. Or not, but in a way that was more positive about his acting abilities than I generally am.

[mikou.livejournal.com]

My fave serial killer is "Dexter", the TV series. The first book (Jeff Lindsay's Darkly Dreaming Dexter) is also good, though I prefer the show. I 2nd the rec for Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer and would add Monster. And, of course, there's Criminal Minds which has many episodes about serial killers.

My written recs include Joyce Carol Oates' book, Zombie and Poppy Z. Brite's Wormwood. The latter is a collection of short stories.

Good luck!

[allthelivesofme.livejournal.com]

I did, too-- maybe I was just feeling shaky anyway around the time that I watched it, but it disturbed me enough that I've only watched it once.

[allthelivesofme.livejournal.com]

Met the man years ago at the FBI academy before Hollywood made profiling into crime solving magic.

Cool! :-) His books are just absolutely fascinating.

And I actually like the version they did with Ed Norton better than Manhunter (though ymmv), because they stuck closer to the ending in the book. Didn't get it exactly the same, but the majority of the twist was left in that time around.

[realpestilence.livejournal.com]

Me, too! I watched Seven several times, because part of the appeal of the movie, once you've had the shock of "what's in the box", etc, is the reactions of the crowd around you. Morbid, but funny in spots, too.

But I've only watched 8MM once...it's just too moving and it *reverberates* for a long time. An all-around great piece of work, though, in terms of script-writing, acting, and cinematography.

[linderhill.livejournal.com]

Meeting John Douglas was interesting at the time simply because it was a time that profiling was still in its infancy. I took a two week class with some profilers in training (a year long process) and some of the discussions we had were fascinating. (its also probably one reason why I sometimes have no patience watching "Criminal MInds" and its devout following) One of the guys in the class had worked on the Green River Killer task force. (yet another fascinating read)

movie versions of books always are a toss-up for me. I think the main reason I didn't go see the Red Dragon movie was because I'm not a big fan of Ed Norton. I was very disturbed by the changes they made in Manhunter from the book and that probably was another reason I didn't go to the second movie. I remember listening to a guy in a video store talking about how superior Manhunter was to Silence of the Lambs and wondering what movie he'd been watching. The movie was so stylized, (Michael Mann does the FBI) I have to remind myself that this was the era of Miami Vice. I liked mostly because of Billy Petersen. I greatly enjoyed the movie version of Silence, mostly due to Jodie Foster and Anthony Hopkins' characters and the fact that the PTB actually seemed to have read the book.

Anyway, I hope you find your research fruitful!

[aubergineautumn.livejournal.com]

The Dwarf by Par Lagerkvist. Written in the 1940s, translated into English. Lagerkvist later won the Nobel Prize in Literature; and he can actually write a readable story (you know what I mean- sometimes these people who win write totally boring fiction). The story is as readable as Watership Down or To Kill A Mockingbird. When I think of Evil in fiction, I always think of this book. Once read, you will always remember it.

[e-goddess.livejournal.com]

Ahem. Hello, lurker here, but since you asked...

I really like "The Minus Man", by Lew McCreary, also made into a movie by the same title. (The book is far better, I don't need to say.) He may not be what you're looking for, as the main character, Vann, is one of those, "but he seems like such a nice boy" sort of serial killers. However, the entire story is told from the Vann's point of view, and it's an interesting look into a sociopath's mind.

A tidbit: "The ravine was cool. Air currents flowed through carrying water from the seven rivers. As the moisture landed gently, blessing my cheeks, I believed I could tell which droplets came from which rivers. As on all past occasions, I sensed the rivers' approval. They whispered not to shut the hole. 'Don't be so quick.' Staring down, I watched the damp invade Galen's shirt and hair, darkening him. The sun fell lower, dimming the ravine. I waited for permission.

'Please,' I said.

I waited. The breaks of gray between the dark trunks grew as dark as the trunks themselves. Shadows were everywhere. I looked down upon Galen and could scarcely see him, as though the hole had deepened far down.

'Now,' the rivers said.

I spaded in the dirt."

[katzb101.livejournal.com]

I suspect you've probably read these but..

Silence of the Lambs.

Or possibly more along the lines you want, it's prequel Red Dragon. And if you haven't go with the books the films don't do either justice.

[kitsune-kitana.livejournal.com]

I actually really enjoyed Zodiac, with Jake Gyllenhaal. I watched it on a packed flight from Tokyo to San Francisco and even surrounded by people I was scared (although reading about the Zodiac killer on the web is enough to give me chills). It doesn't have the typical kind of cheap scary movie thrills, but just a really ominous ambiance topped by an excellent use of suspense. The last scene with Gyllenhaal in the basement was so creepy that I had to switch to the TV half way through in order to collect myself.

[lahtan.livejournal.com]

I've never commented before but I greatly appreciate the different verses you created.I hope this can help you.
James Ellroy wrote many novels with Cop/Serial killer's POV. Blood on the Moon is a very good one.
He also wrote Killer on the Road. The story is written from the serial killer's POV only. Both are extremely dark and very disturbing.

Plot summaries :
Wikipedia – Killer on the road (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_on_the_Road)
Wikipedia – Blood on the moon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_on_the_Moon_(novel))

[jedi-diplomat.livejournal.com]

There's the "The Shrine of Jeffrey Dahmer" by Brian Masters.

Dahmer killed something like 37 boys before he was caught. The whole thing was this huge controversy in Milwaukee because the cops found a 14 year old boy running naked through the streets thought it was a lovers spat and gave him back to Dahmer who then killed him. The cops were not only found not guilty but were given their jobs back.

[catangel70.livejournal.com]

I'd have to recommend the mother of all fanfic Oklahoma by Amperage and Livengoo. An outstanding Pre-Xfiles story that was written years ago, The serial killer is truelly disturbing - not for the faint of heart...well worth the read. They also wrote another one The Corpse also a great read.

[nilchance.livejournal.com]

(And btw, Sigourney's another example of a tall, strong woman in support of the "how did Ever know" re:Jen in Marriage Drag *beams*)

*laugh* Okay, yes. This. I think Ever reading Jensen as male... well, I fan-wanked it in my brain as being an effect of Ever being from a matriarchal society. She definitely has seen BIG women with big hands, graceless posture and height to equal Jensen. Um. Maybe it was Jensen's fake boobs and they were lopsided? IDK. ;)

As for the killer, I know mostly the WHY of what he's doing, less the who he is. So, y'know. He does fit the profile of most serial killers (at least those who have been caught!): white, male.

Thank you for the recs! Netflix won't let me add any more to my list unless I start sending things back. *sheepish*

[nilchance.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much!

The Hitcher

[(Anonymous)]

When Poisontaster posted The Vanishing (and the original French version is more eerie, I think), I mistook it as The Hitcher.

Wouldn't The Hitcher be good as a resource? I always thought at the end that the young man was finally broken at the end and *became* the next serial killer. I don't recall another story in which I bought the "becoming the monster you hunt" deal so completely.

To be clear, I'm talking about the 1986 version with Rutger Hauer.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091209/

[allthelivesofme.livejournal.com]

((not a book recommendation, but I saw these icons (http://iconzicons.livejournal.com/297044.html#cutid1) and thought of you. LOL))

[realpestilence.livejournal.com]

...have you ever seen 'Frequency'? It's mostly about male relationships-father to son, friends to friends, men to wives,etc; but there is a serial killer subplot. He focusses on certain types of women, with jewelry on. It's an interesting movie-not sure if there's enough in there for your research purposes, but it wouldn't be painful to watch, trying. :D

And...I think Barbara Vine (aka Ruth Rendall) wrote a mystery-suspense type title where this guy kills off his mother? Maybe both parents...there's descriptions of how he'd never been held much as a baby, great emotional neglect, etc. A subplot has this girl Francine (I believe) whose mother had been murdered, and she was very scarred-and the two meet up. I *wish* I could remember the name, damn it, because the description of the guy's mental state is a good one for your purposes...grrr!!! I was disturbed by the story, and don't think I kept it. SO HELPFUL, I KNOW!!! \O/

Um...and the Tom Hanks movie, 'Road to Redemption'...he's a hit man for the Irish mob, back when, and has to make a choice between his job and his son. Not a serial killer type story, per se; but it's an interesting look at how people can justify anything to themselves, if they want to bad enough. Well-acted movie, though dark.