nilchance | (no subject)

I briefly thought Castiel was played by Jamie Bamber. *facepalm* But OH, omnomnom Misha, with his crazy eyes and his handprint on Dean's arm. My current theory, ready to be Kripke'd? He's related to Mary. Uncle Castiel! Keeping it all in the family!

"You're the closest thing to a father I have." Yeah. My thoughts on this are complicated and not at all shallow. At first, I figured the caveat was, y'know, ALIVE. And then, well. I have thoughts about the common perception of "fatherly" behavior and how Bobby fits it while John, less so, and why that still makes me heart John. Also, I'm wondering if at some point we're going to see Dean ask Castiel where John IS, exactly. Is he in heaven? IS there a heaven? Is he with Mary? Is he (pet theory) waiting around on this plane to watch over his boys?

Miiiiishaaaaa. If I have a Misha/Jeff/Jensen thought, well. You didn't see it here.

Oh, Bobby. I find it interesting that, without layers, Bobby is whipcord skinny. And that the older male hunters we've seen (John, Bobby, Elkins) all bulk themselves up with plaid flannel.

Oh, SAM. *facepalm* If a demon wants you to do it, and it feels good, and it involves lying to Dean straight out of hell? It's a BAD IDEA. Also, you look like you need a long hot shower in lye.

Pamela, omnomnomnom.

Gratuitous half-naked Jensen! And he didn't have to remove an ear this time.

"We have work for you." = callback to "we have work to do." Y/N?

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My current theory, ready to be Kripke'd? He's related to Mary. Uncle Castiel! Keeping it all in the family!
Sheesh! God I wish! I'm totally in love with your idea. :D

Hmmm, interesting but if they (and so far they are) keeping with the more old school angel mythology, then angels are people and people aren't angels. There are angel/human hybrids (damn if I can remember the names of them) but they're always girls, always horribly disabled, and almost always die in their teens (aka assumed into heaven to become angels.)

Of course, they could change this, there's a lot of angel mythology out there, but so far they're keeping with the old school lot.

Yeah. I'm figuring if that is the case, maybe Mary was always an angel (of the fallen variety? A Grigori?) who chose to stay with John? IDK, it's my cracked out pet theory.

What about the Nephilim? I thought those were supposedly the giants born from angel/human mating. And, well, Sam is kinda giant.

Nephilim!! That's the term I was looking for.

Not that I've done preliminary research since, oh, season 2 for an epic mythology-fic that I'll never write...

This is from Genesis.
"Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. [...] The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. [bold-face is obvs mine]

Now in Ethiopian Biblical canon, there's the Book of Enoch, considered Apocrypha by the western churches, and we have this:

And it came to pass, after the children of men had increased in those days, beautiful and comely daughters were born to them. 2. And the angels, the sons of the heavens, saw and lusted after them, and said one to another: “Behold, we will choose for ourselves wives from among the children of men, and will beget for ourselves children.”

Same general idea, right? BUT. Then right after that, they talk about this whole begating giants with human women thing for a while and THEN, literally right after, we get this:

And Azâzêl taught mankind to make swords and knives and shields and coats of mail, and taught them to see what was behind them, and their works of art: bracelets and ornaments, and the use of rouge, and the beautifying of the eye-brows, and the dearest and choicest stones and all coloring substances and the metals of the earth. And there was great wickedness and much fornication, and they sinned, and all their ways were corrupt.

CURIOUSER AND CURIOUSER, NO?

Old School angel is that Angels are Angels and humans are humans.. humans got the benefit of free will and angels got jealous and staged a coup. The rebellious angels lost and were banished to hell. I've seen more recent theories that the angels who didn't choose a side ended up on earth as their punishment but I'm not sure how cannonical (heh) that is.

In the Supernatural mythology, it has been established that when you go to hell, your soul rots and then you forget and then you become a demon. So the human soul = demon given the right circumstance. Carrying that through, a human who goes to heaven may very well find that they've forgotten humanity as well after enough time. God = Crack.

Supernatural girls who die early sounds more like one of the variations on the daughters of Lilith where 1000 of them were doomed to die each day that Lilith didn't turn back to God.. so there were a lot of them dieing all the time.

I've seen more recent theories that the angels who didn't choose a side ended up on earth as their punishment but I'm not sure how cannonical (heh) that is.

I think that's the plot of "The Prophecy." Thanks for all the info, I knew some of the angel mythology but not the part about Lilith. Can I have recs and/or links of where you got your info? I'm seriously facinated by the old school mythology.

Naw, "The Prophesy" was about "Heaven War II" where as the Lucipher defection was "Heaven War I". Thinking about it now, I think the 'stuck in the middle' theory came from the Shades of Divinity (http://www.pen-paper.net/rpgdb.php?op=showbook&bookid=2156) RPG. It had a truely aweful system but the backstory was fun to read.

Honestly, pretty much everything I have came out of Wikipedia. Specifically the Nephilim (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephilim), Grigori (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grigori), and Lilith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith) entries. If you want to get really ancient though, there is a wealth of information under the entry for Elohim (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elohim) specifically relating to the plurality of the word (making it analagous to 'pantheon' and Ancient Semetic Religion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Semitic_religion) where it goes into the nitty gritty of the multiple gods that the isrealites worshipped before they were 'jewish'. Add in some of the 'down the page' information from the Yahweh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh) entry and you get the a picture of Yahweh rising to prominence and taking El's possition. Similar in some ways to Zeus taking over from Chronos.