Seriously, fandom?

[nilchance]

Chub!Jensen controversy and now a big-bang set in an obesity research center?

Trigger. Biiiiig trigger.

I am sore tired of catching this merry fat-hating bullshit every time I turn on the TV ("now on Dr. G, Medical Examiner: OBESITY CRISIS OBESITY FATTY FATTY FAT FAT DEAAAAATH!"), but fandom too, for serious?

Argh.

ETA: Also, okay. I understand that the underlying message is that Jensen has to come to love himself. HOWEVER. It comes with the understanding that Jensen is expressing his love for himself by losing the weight "for Jared", to go find Jared and love and enlightenment and that.

Here's the thing. Very rarely do fat people actually get that way by cramming fast food and abusing their bodies. They get there through genetics, or thyroid issues, or antidepressants (hi there!), or a history of yo-yo dieting that resets their resting point of ideal weight. A history of eating disorders. So forcing one's body into a thinner shape by exercising to exhaustion (thus making exercise an unpleasant chore that one HAS to do to BEAT OBESITY), or limiting calories to deprivation, is a shock to one's system. It's not necessarily self-love, though it may be motivated by the desire to be lovable or to live longer (because of fear of obesity killing them) or because they can't be happy until they're thin.

Self-love is unrelated to a number on a scale. It's recognizing one's worth, unconnected to one's weight. The beauty of your body as it is, flaws and all, not as it could be. Pursuing health is an awesome thing, and a great way to love yourself, but pursuing thinness is not the same thing.

Comments

[beanside.livejournal.com]

I love you. Thank you for being my knight in shining armor.

[embroiderama]

Yeah. I'm torn between wanting to read that story and being terribly squicked by the thought. And that's pretty much my life right there. :\

Pursuing health is an awesome thing, and a great way to love yourself, but pursuing thinness is not the same thing.

Yes, yes, that!

[nilchance.livejournal.com]

It's... I have a lot of problems with it. Um, obviously. Least of all that it triggered both me and T.

[poisontaster]

There's also a correlation, in that kind of story, that to be fat, CLEARLY YOU DO *NOT* LOVE YOURSELF, because otherwise, why would you be fat? And... *sighs*

[cormallen.livejournal.com]

On one hand, I found the story quite compelling -- but on the other, it made me horrifically uncomfortable. Which I didn't really realize until a while after I'd finished reading. Parts of it kind of made me feel like all I've done to accept myself has been... well, lying to myself, in a way. Does that make sense? Like maybe it's not acceptance or self-love, but just more excuses. Even though I know, intellectually, that it's not. Some parts of it almost felt like listening to my mother's preferred attack plan, the "you have to do this so you don't die" (and no bloodwork would ever convince her that my cholesterol levels are within the norm). I don't know, in a way, I kind of wish I hadn't read the story now, even though I did initially leave the author a very nice comment. Ugh, now I'm kind of feeling uncomfortable about leaving this comment here, as well, since I probably should be bringing this up with the author, instead.

[liptonrm.livejournal.com]

Oh, What.The.Fuck. people?

It's attitudes and perceptions like that that make me not take anti-fat rhetoric seriously. I'm not fat because I hate myself I'm fat because I'm fat and while societal impressions can be a factor in how I feel about myself on any given day I know that I won't love myself more if I lose weight. That's just facts.

Strangely enough, most of the overweight people I know are extremely healthy. They eat well, they don't have excessive amounts of cholesterol or other worrisome factors and when they do have health problems they're generally unrelated to their weight.

There's so much bad information that's just generally accepted as wisdom in the healthcare community, about this topic in particular, and, of course, if a doctor says it it has to be true. Whatever, people. Just, whatever.

I didn't read the story because, well, I don't read every Big Bang and it didn't sound like something I'd enjoy. And now I'm really glad I didn't. Thank you.

[cdeacon.livejournal.com]

I know we don't know each other, but I just wanted to say how grateful I am to both you and beanside for posting about this. Seeing pretty much every weight-related stereotype dragged out in that fic was triggering like nobody's business. Thanks for saying something.

[jane-eyre.livejournal.com]

Thank you for saying this. I'm so tired of people seeing somebody that is overweight and hating them because of it. As you say so many different things can factor into somebody being overweight and most of the time it isn't overeating.

[yanzadracan.livejournal.com]

You go girl! I couldn't have said it better. My mother went through that, and now I'm running into the same problems. Always happy to see others stand and tell the skinny people of the world to mind their own business.

[beanside.livejournal.com]

Hi, you don't know me, but I'm nilchance's wife.

I want to hug you right now. Sorry if that seems weird. That's precisely why I posted, and why Jess posted, because I read it, and it triggered me right back into sitting in the doctor's office and being told I should have a surgery that has a 10% chance of killing me, because it would make me lose weight. I felt like I was being told I'd be better dead than fat.

There is nothing wrong with you. You are awesome. It was a well written technically. If it hadn't been, it wouldn't have affected me so much. But that doesn't mean it's correct, or healthy.

You know that you are healthy. You know that you're strong. And I can totally see why you wouldn't want to say it to the author. She obviously believes what she's saying, so I wouldn't presume that there would be support there.

Anyway, just, y'know. Be you. It's more than enough.

[takobella.livejournal.com]

hmmm I found this so interesting to read and take in your view of the story. I read it last night and I have to say while I didn't see it as a story promoting the idea that to love yourself you have to be skinny...I can see how thats sort of the message you got.

I come from a family where being twenty pounds overwieght is DEATH...let alone 100 or more like in the story. So reading this story was like having my grandma's voice chirping in my head the whole way through...yet I totally loved it. lol

so ya...I don't really know where I'm going with this hahahaha. Just that I totally appreciate hearing different views on stories I've read...it helps give me a different perspective on life :)

[cormallen.livejournal.com]

I don't know you personally, but I know of you (and of your writing, as well -- I'm a fan, just really crap at leaving comments sometimes). I'm actually not all that good with people, period -- right now I'm somewhat struggling for words, trying to formulate a reply to this other than "thanks". Will a "thanks" do for now?

It was a well written technically. If it hadn't been, it wouldn't have affected me so much. But that doesn't mean it's correct, or healthy.
I think this is what affected me the most. Because it was well written, and drew me in, and snuck by me until BAM, I suddenly realized those weren't tears of joy on my face.

Thank you. Again.

[ixchel55.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I gave that story a big pass. I knew it was going no where I wanted to go.

[plainjanejones0.livejournal.com]

I agree with your rant in theory. I don't like it as a plot device nor the implications it tries to make about North American culture in general.

But you know what I am sore tired of? Skinny-hating bullshit, kind of like your icon. So fat people are allowed many reasons for the weight that they may or may not consider to be an issue or a problem, including, but not limited to genetics, or thyroid issues, or antidepressants (hi there!), or a history of yo-yo dieting that resets their resting point of ideal weight. A history of eating disorders. But skinny people only weigh what they do from either not eating enough or attempting to conform to the unreasonable standards of beauty that the fashion industry imposes upon us? Hello, there double-standard!

This is going to get rambly, so bear with me >_>

[oaktree89.livejournal.com]

You make some very good points, and I agree with almost all of them. I personally have a lot of issues surrounding the fat acceptance/weight loss/etc. controversy, and I certainly agree that it's a complicated issue.

I've struggled with my weight my entire life. I've been thin, I've been fat, and I've been many places in between, but I've never felt comfortable in my body. So I do recognize that thinness and fatness are really not connected to a healthy body image. That comes from a very different place.

However, I do also want to say that in my case (and in many others, though of course not all, or even most), people become overweight through overeating. Now, it depends on what your definition of overeating is, but mine is eating because of stress and not because of hunger, because of sadness and not because of hunger, because of insecurity and not because of hunger.

When I went through two jars of nutella a day, plus my normal diet, that was overeating, and that caused me to gain fifty pounds in eight months.

Of course, I'd also nearly stopped exercising entirely, so I wasn't fit. My diet was very high sugar, and I came down with a yeast infection. I was in Bad Health.

Then I left university at the end of the year. I've been home a month. I've lost ten pounds. I still weigh more that I "should" (and a hell of a lot more than I have in the past), but I feel ten thousand times better, and I'm closer now, and 195 pounds, to accepting my body for what it is at this moment in time than I was at 135. This is because I've been exercising and eating very healthy foods. This is because I've been reading Kate Harding's blog. This is because I'm not beating myself up mentally because I'm "fat".

When I read that big bang, I honestly didn't see any of the politics that others did. I identified with Jensen's self-hatred- that it is your fault (in part, rarely in entirety- genes have some responsibility, too!), that you have hurt yourself (if not in being fat, than in hating yourself for being fat), etc. etc.

I do see that there are some elements of the story that are problematic. But the whole issue is so complicated.

[ixchel55.livejournal.com]

The weird weight-loss guru Richard Simmons totally turned me off with his motto "Inside every fat person is a skinny person crying to be free" and with the statement (literally) that a person who's fat can't be happy with themselves.

Sad to be filled with so much self-hatred.

[allthelivesofme.livejournal.com]

Aaaaaand now I know a Big Bang I should skip. :-P Also, one of these days I'm planning to start a novel with a fat protagonist and the end of the novel will not involve her losing weight and suddenly feeling so much better about herself happy rainbow kittens yay!! Pfffft.

[allthelivesofme.livejournal.com]

Hm. Myself, I saw the icon as a jab at the 'unreasonable standards of beauty that the fashion industry imposes upon us' rather than some kind of "I hate skinny people" statement.

[allthelivesofme.livejournal.com]

I love your icon! :-)

[janissa11.livejournal.com]

Man, I missed seeing that one earlier, and now -- well, I have probably made my feelings about the whole jubjub bullshit clear in my own journal, and this? Has the potential to do baaaaad things to my blood pressure.

Thank you for speaking out. Going to copy this comment to your spouse's LJ.

[nilchance.livejournal.com]

I apologize. I saw it as a slap at fashion standards and what they consider "plus size", but intent doesn't change the fact that it hurt you. I'll change the icon now and take it out of rotation. All bodies deserve love, skinny or otherwise.

[plainjanejones0.livejournal.com]

Thank you for your kindness. It is greatly appreciated. It was something that did bother me in the past in enjoying your journal, but never something appropriate for me to comment on.

All bodies deserve love, skinny or otherwise.

I agree. I believe all bodies are beautiful, in their own, special ways.

[ixchel55.livejournal.com]

Thank you! Please help yourself.

[siubhlach.livejournal.com]

Pursuing health is an awesome thing, and a great way to love yourself, but pursuing thinness is not the same thing.

And maybe one day, if we're really, really lucky, the mass media *shudder*, and society as a whole will eventually comprehend that health and beauty are not equated to thinness and then maybe we can progress beyond "I hate the way I look" which is far too tied into "Society tells me I look fat, ugly and hideous and my life would be better if I could only lose that weight."

I shan't start my rant about the BMI *snarl* because comment boxes are only so big.

I will say this though; anyone who believes their intrinsic life happiness is tied into their weight is probably in for a nasty surprise if they do manage to lose it. If you hate yourself when you're fat, why do you think you'll feel any different about who you are just because there's physically less of you?

[quiet000001.livejournal.com]

dude. Am so glad someone else said something about that, because I felt too shitty today. But I started trying to read that fic (because I gotta give things a chance!) and got as far as "well, your dad and mom aren't fat, so you have no genetic excuse!" and had to close before smoke started coming out my ears.

There's now this whole big bang fic which actively OFFENDS me by existing. Is very annoying.